Andrej Tisma: I think the Internet, the WWW is a hugest audience possible today.
Marcus Graf: Do we really reach a wide audience tonight. is it really so democratic? Hellllllllooooooooo
Marcus Graf: So Genco, it is 18:00 now, shall we begin :)
Genco Gulan: OK. Let's start with our topic: "To archive or Not to Archive". The first question is, Markus would you keep the first sentences of the panel - the discussion- while editing or just cut it of?
Marcus Graf: No, you cannot cut it off because it is part of the interactive and strange structure of this e-panel. It is heterogeneous and non-linear. That is its biggest advantage and the risk at the same time.
Genco Gulan: But these panels create a text of 12 A4 pages, so Tim how can we edit these texts to couple of pages for the ISEA Newsletter format?
Tim Hailey: Pages? Are you printing them? Is that necessary?
Yiannis Colakides : I guess that the idea is that the whole text is saved and then edited as necessary...
Teoman Madra: archiving live materials or the dead ones as they call it
Genco Gulan: I think we get used to the idea of "there are No rules in art" and instead of discussing the criteria's for good art we are talking about the methods of preserving.
Robert Dansby: it seems to me that indeed the site is the archive
Tim Hailey: University dumpster and city sidewalks are filled with art being archived with my tea glass collages!
Teoman Madra: there are already two panels archived
Genco Gulan: As for WB we do not archive online art, we archive these panels online for future reference.
Genco Gulan: the art historians talk about end of art maybe we should consider about "end of art history"
Teoman Madra: archiving has become business also
Tim Hailey: In the market, art must be archived in a way that supports the illusion(perhaps) that it is important
Ryanne de Boer: we are slowly turning in to non-materialist so maybe only the producer of an artwork will be the conservator
Tim Hailey: I'm archiving Katrina refugees now.
Marcus Graf: living means archiving. You see, you remember, you take, you keep
Yiannis Colakides: Tim i would like to know more about how you archive the refugees
Genco Gulan: Yiannis, I just wanted to remind that as far as I know, there is a city in Cyprus, that is kept empty as is, by UN forces for many years.
Ryanne de Boer: than the next question is how.. in many different ways as Andrej says?
Tim Hailey: Hitler (and art critics) categorize as an attempt to catalog
Andrej Tisma: For example I lost my data on several servers in America , once it was at September 11 2001, and with that experience I keep my data on CDs, HDD, everywhere.
Teoman Madra: archiving need not develop daNGEROUS(ly)
Ryanne de Boer: ok so as we are talking about art on Internet/web-art/net-art it should be stored on different media but who will archive???
Tim Hailey: Those who have a self-interest in archiving: the artist, the dealer, the CIA...
Yiannis Colakides: Would data collection constitute an archive?
Genco Gulan: or does an institution legitimize itself with a collection or database?
Yiannis Colakides: or is an archive something more important than a collection of data?
Andrej Tisma: It is one more interesting thing in my case of archiving - I keep several thousands emails in my folder which were set to me during the 1999 year bombing of Novi Sad . It took about 3 months
Andrej Tisma: and I didn't get to open all those emails. I had to approach Internet every 3 or 4 days, so I opened and replied only to the urgent messages
Genco Gulan: In the Istanbul Museum we have data, paintings and people and information...I think "custom navigation" is a better answer to say what we have.
Andrej Tisma: So I keep the "archive" unopened for last 6 years, and who knows what is in there. People's worry about my life, health, some insults I suppose, but also some viruses, warms (my scanner warns me)
Ryanne de Boer: by buying a piece of net-art is that like buying the rights to preserve it?
Genco Gulan: For example this panel is about communicating real time on four continents, not only about documenting!
Yiannis Colakides: Ryanne de Boer whenever one buys a piece of art they assume the responsibility rather than the right to preserve it.
Genco Gulan: Markus, how do you keep the archives of your galleries?
Marcus Graf: Genco, mainly by taking pictures and texts. Though the exhibition on photo looks different, is different. Therefore, maybe we can say that the archive (sometimes) changes the archived thing
Robert Dansby: i've often been asked over the years if i was a photographer simply because of photographed works... as an archive
Marcus Graf: Archiving to prevent from getting destroyed. But for whom? There are archives, that nearly nobody can enter.
Genco Gulan: Turkish painter Esat Tekand ones did paintings of famous performances in art history. Than are they become painting or just records?
Marcus Graf: By the way, every painting is a record, therefore an archive of its own
Andrej Tisma: It is good that big museums world-wide have archives for net-art/web-art, but the problem is who is archiving, what is their criteria
Robert Dansby: i think archiving and curating are perhaps more aligned than we want?
Yiannis Colakides : Sean Cubitt in an article of his which we will be publishing in our site says: The Walker Gallery archive of net-art is emphatic - what it shows is no longer 'art' but a history of art.
Ryanne de Boer : the goal of archiving determines the content
Genco Gulan : We are networked at the moment for sure and we will archive this as well. Now how can this become art?
Tim Hailey : When I write about racing, it documents the race, but only what I think is important enough to make a readable article in a particular space.
Andrej Tisma : Archiving curators in museums have their own taste, criteria, group of interest, so those archives are fragmentary, not objective, are very subjective. Not giving a real image of situation.
Marcus Graf : Take it out of its context (translocate it)
Teoman Madra : archiving the mistakes ca n be security
Andrej Tisma : The advance of digital media is that it is easy and cheap to archive, much easier than classical art.
Marcus Graf has left the chat
Tim Hailey : Mehmet and Genco in the same chat room..?
Nina Czegledy : I am well in Toronto and eager to begin discussing archiving
Real Mehmet Sinan has come in chat
Tim Hailey : I feel like persons are being archived and documented on this panel...
Nina Czegledy : I am in favor of open archives and encouraged by world wide activities
Genco Gulan : The question is are you satisfied / convinced with the methods? And are there only technical problems?
Nina Czegledy : Yes, on the surface it provides a false sense of security....
Mehmet Sinan : war n 1: the waging of armed conflict against an enemy;
"thousands of people were killed in the war"
Nina Czegledy : yet they are so aware of current political and military issues
Mehmet Sinan : encouragement n 1: the expression of approval and support
Robert Dansby : in my case it's part and parcel of making work first, but also distribution
Genco Gulan : My question was; do we need to archive/ document what ever we do?
Mehmet Sinan : discussion n 1: an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic
Genco Gulan : In Web Biennial we do not archive or document any art, only document e-symposium panel texts...
Tim Hailey : But all the artists maintain their own archives
Nina Czegledy : this can be a personal choice, however I find it intriguing that more and more collaborative projects…
Mehmet Sinan : Biennial adj 1: occurring every second year;
Mehmet Sinan : Japanese adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Japan or its people or their culture or language; "the Japanese Emperor"
Tim Hailey : should New Orleans be archived?
Nina Czegledy : I am all for trying alternate formats
Robert Dansby : that is a HUGE question but i say yes
Genco Gulan : so how can we really shift the parameters from medium to content, that is my real question, what do you think Yiannis?
Yiannis Colakides : In the Mac Luhan theorem the medium is the message but imposing content to it is another matter all together
Umit Ozat: well, i had looked at the previous panels and saw lots of fictitious users such as Mehmet Sinan, Osman Hamdi, so i'm trying to figure out what is really going on here
Nina Czegledy : Any more input on archiving or documentation of new media?
ümit özat : was steve dietz from the previous panels the real one or was it all theater?
Genco Gulan : I realized in the previous ISEA newsletters, there is a great emphasis on diversity but we can not see this in conferences
Robert Dansby : i mean what i do has no physical properties so how else record it?
Nina Czegledy : Due to changing formats etc., I am not sure if archiving remains constant
Real Mehmet Sinan : N? au d?but des ann?es 1990 sur la sc?ne techno, le VJing est la pratique du mixage en direct de flux d'images, faisant ainsi le pendant au DJing,
Genco Gulan : Nina, before you came I was talking about "custom navigation" as we also discussed with John Ippolito.
Yiannis Colakides : and what separates an archive from a collection of arbitrary (or not) things?
Nina Czegledy : Genco, custom navigation is indeed a very interesting concept
Genco Gulan : open, fresh, new are some key works but how are we going to choose or understand which is real and which is not!
Robert Dansby : yes the point of digital tech is that we can access it
Nina Czegledy : It is difficult to imagine today, what will be relevant tomorrow, don't you think?
Genco Gulan : Mehmet by the way, some French characters does not show up here!
Yiannis Colakides : yes Nina but does this mean that we save everything? No qualitative measure?

Full text: http://webbiennial.org/symposium/panel3.htm


Genco Gülan: Dear friends welcome to the 4.th panel of our e-symposium.
Gökhan Mura : Genco could you make an introduction or should we wait a bit longer?
Genco Gülan: Let's start immediately. Our title is "New Art" what do you think about it?
Emre Baykal: Is the title "New Art" or "What is happening in Turkey?"
Genco Gülan: Actually both of them...
Teoman Madra : Hello, this is a "new" technology to follow these panels from home...
Gökhan Mura : I think we should ask how new art is reshaping as the artists in Turkey are now able to use the same technologies like the "contemporary" artists